Last updated: 22 Nov 2011
Perjamosch / Banat, Austria-Hungary
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I wrote this earlier but let me stress these important facts, again. If it is one thing I've learn in studying the Huberts and my Remmick families, the various groups of Germans formed tight bonds to their families, language, culture and traditions. My own family migrated from the German states to Russia and formed similar colonies as the Huberts did in Austria-Hungary, in fact, a few of my ancestors even lingered for a time in Austria-Hungary. If it was possible they settled in colonies that held others who had migrated from the same general area they had migrated. Just because people spoke German didn't mean they could understand each other. There were many different dialects. My father's father's and mother's family spoke a different dialect than my mother, who found my father's German "different". My father just stopped speaking German, since most Germans in the area where they lived couldn't understand his German which was Old High German sprinkled with Swiss. Even though we do not know what language the two brothers, Franz and Maxmillian spoke, they became a part of the German Schwabian community and their brides and children spoke Schwabian German.
Not only did the German Schwabians hold onto their language, they continued to practice their traditions, culture and religion. There are excellent books which delve into these subjects and you might be surprised how your own family's traditions and culture connect to the German Schwabians. And they became the dominate Germans in Banat.
Franz and Maximillian were married in the Catholic Church in Perjamosch. Thereafter, the Huber/ Huberts practiced the Catholic religion in Perjamosch and married into other Catholic families. The only exception we know was my husband's father, M. P. Hubert who left the church in 1941 and married "Pat" Johansen, a Lutheran, who raised their children, Garry, Susanne and Denise, in the Lutheran Church.
An important fact: Being Catholic was a requirement for those who wanted to take advantage of acquiring the free lands and other benefits given by the government of Austria-Hungary which needed immigrants to settle in the Banat area which the Habsburg's had just been victorious over the Turks in 1724. Later in Austria-Hungary history, Protestants were allowed to colonize.
The Schwabian Germans were not the only settlers who were Catholic colonists in Austria-Hungary. There were a few Catholic Italians as well as 4,000 plus French speaking immigrants. Historians cannot call these 4,000 plus immigrants French because many were Germans who had been living in areas that had been part of the world where the French and the Germans battled constantly for land. Many of the Germans spoke German and French. (See the section on French colonists).. .
Could the Huberts' Origin Be French?
There is an estimated number of 4,000 plus French-speaking immigrants who settled in the area known to them as "Francais du Banat". The French remained separate for two or more generations for their ethnic identity.
See other maps and history behind these maps of Alsace, Alsace-Lorraine and Lotharingia which covers the years of 1000 to the present.
List And Brief History of the German States, Grand Duchies, Principalities from "A" to "Zzzz"
>>The terms "French colonists" and "French colonization" imply that the colonists originated from German and French-Lorraine , Alsace, and from the French Departements bordering on Alsace and Lorraine [= German Elass- Lothringen which was bites and pieces of what was once the Frankish empire of Duchy of Lothringen known today in part as the Alsace Lorraine , France that went to the French through inheritence in 1776 ], as well as Luxemburg and southern Belgium (the province called Luxemburg) ....<< [ dvvh: http//www.dvhh.org/banat/history/1700/colonization.htm ]
to Austria-Hungary. After two or three generations, they were speaking German Schwabian. I suspect their traditions and culture have filtered down through the years as they mingled with the Schwabian and Austria-Hungary traditions and culture through various holiday events as well as their food preparations, such as "sauces" instead of "gravy", "Quiche Lorraine, puff pastry filled with pork and veal, a stew of smoked meas, sausages, cabbage and root vegetables and their tripe sausage "Andouille". Ad let us not forget their "Flombieres" [cherrie flambe] ice cream and rhubard pie.
Is it possible that Franz and Maximilian were not German but French? We do not know. Using an educated guess, I could understand if one Huber / Hubert who might have crossed the ethnic line (being French and marry into the Schwabian German), but both Franz and Maximilian Huber / Hubert married into the German Schwabian families would have been very unusual in that time period. Therefore, the probability that Franz and Maximilian were German ((Schwabian and or Saxon) is more likely than the two of them being French. I will surrender to the fact they may have been billinugal. But, the fact is, I do not know. So, let's dig into the history of the French colonists in Austria-Hungary..
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~banatdata/Documents/NewOnTheList.htm by Cath Deschu:
>>4. One thing to keep in mind is that it is very common in the Banat (and elsewhere) for the spelling of a name to vary. First of all, many of the settlers may not have been literate and the spelling depended on the individual clerk recording it...and/or the many different priests from village to village who did the recording. Most Banat names appeared for the first time in Banat/Austrian records when they registered in Vienna. Yet, for some lucky people, the records of the catholic priests were very good and prove can prove where your ancestor came from when the records of the Church preserved their roots. Here is some evidence that French names were Germanized, then eventually Magyarized in Banat. It was not an intentional effort to make all settlers appear to be German. But unless the settler could read and write or spell his name, it just happened. Here are the names of people on the Banat List at rootsweb.com who have proof of what the name was in France, before the Banat. It shows clearly that names WERE germanized in Banat! So when looking for "pre" Banat, keep it in mind.
DUPONT originally French > Germanized Dippong, Diebong, Duppong AND BOURGEOIS originally > to Borsova (1841) > to Borschowa AND GASCON originally >GASKO > then Magyarized to GASZKO AND CHANET originally > SCHANETT > then Magyarized to ZSANETTI AND DÉCHOU originally in France > Germanized to DESCHU Our DESCHU name is unique to the Banat. It was basically created by an Austrian clerk doing the registrations in Vienna. As an Austrian, he spoke and HEARD in German. So when our original settler (or colonist as they are often called in the Banat) said his French (could have been from anywhere) name, the clerk heard in German and wrote in the record book what he heard....in German. These records are available in the "Banater Akten." To get the free land, they were required to register in Vienna on their way to the Banat. These registration records are accessible in an indexed chronologically arranged book called the Banater Akten. They record the registration in Vienna from the period 1749-1804. Since the Banat villages were built from scratch to fulfill the need of the Austrian Hapsburg rulers for a buffer zone to keep out the Turks ... not all villages (or just the dwelling) were not ready for habitation when the settlers arrived and they were boarded or quartered with other established families until such time as their own home was ready. Most of these temporary stays were in an entirely different village than the one to which they were assigned. [See the rest of the article....:<<
>>The following comes with an "if" a big IF .... if Lorraine or Alsace (Lotheringen or Elsass) is given as a region of origin, you could then start your Banat search with asking the list a lookup in one (or each) of the 6 villages which were settled predominently by French families.
The name Hubert would have been heard, if spoken by a Frenchman to a German, as "Huber" and not Hubert since the French drop the "t" in Hubert. So Hubert and Huber are pronouned the same. Or, the reason the records show both spellings, because of of the Huberts, like my Remmick family, r changed the spelling. My grandfather changed the spelling of his name Edwuard Roemmick to Edward Remick then his wife changed it to Remmick, as it is spelled by my father than myself.
Differant dialects of German and French were spoken in Alsace and they are shown on the following map:
All of these are just theories at play around our two, Franz and Maxamillian Hubert / Huber.
* FRENCH VILLAGES IN BANAT *
By 1788 there were 104 villages populated by German colonists, including 8 which were predominantly French. These villages were Charleville, SanktHubert, and Seultour (Károlyliget, Szenthubert, and Szoltur in Hungarian). These towns actually edged each other. They are now in the Yugoslavian part of the Banat and have been merged into Banatsko Veliko Selo (YU-23312) in Yugoslavia). To complete the 8 villages there are also Triebswetter (est 1772), GOTTLOB (est 1772), Huefeld, Masztort and Ostern were were also primarily French. Triebswetter is now called Tomnatic, Romania. Seems a fair amount of French settlers went to Lenauheim as well.
"Die Auswanderung der Lothriner in das Banat und die Batschka" (Emigration of Lorraine people into Banat and Batschka). Booklet describes the settlements very detailed (but without name lists) - even some sources are mentioned as footnotes.
"...looked for GOTTLOB. It is mentioned as founded by Neumann von Buchholz in 1772 (200 houses), populated by settlers from "Lothringen (LORRAINE), Elsass (Alsace); Luxemburg; Mainz, Trier, Franken, Pfalz in Germany" From Harald Ruppe HuMRuppe@aol.com
Sadly, though many heard from relatives that their ancestors were French, the name was often changed at the registration in Vienna and after a few generations they spoke French no more.<<
One of the families of interest is Peter Hubert from Tetingen, Luxemburg to Neu Beschenowa, which is a French colony.
See the article in full.<< http//www.dvhh.org/banat/history/1700/colonization.htm [:With particular emphasis on emigration from Lorraine and Luxemburg....]Author is unknown. Source: DVHH = Donauschaben Village Helping Hands. The numbers represent footnotes for the article.
>>The "French" colonization
The terms "French colonists" and "French colonization" imply that the colonists originated from German and French-Lorraine, from Alsace, and from the French Departements bordering on Alsace and Lorraine, as well as Luxemburg and southern Belgium (the province called Luxemburg).
As a rule, during the colonization of the Banat, settler families coming from the same region were settled as much as possible in the same village. They followed that for decades.
The places of origin of the settlers of the Banat "French villages" St. Hubert, Charleville, Seultour, Mercydorf, Triebswetter, Ostern, Gottlob, Hatzfeld, Klein-Jetscha, Segenthau,47 and others, are located southwest of the French-German language border, in the region of Metz- Saargemünd- Saarbourg- Nancy. The indication of origin "ex Chateau Salins" appears extremely often in church books. "Luxemburgers" were well represented in Deutsch-Rekasch. Both "Lothringer" and "Luxemburger" are historical terms that do not coincide entirely with the contemporary regions bearing their names. Places located in today's Rheinland-Pfalz and Saarland, are attributed to Lorraine in the settler listings, while villages in the districts of Saarbourg and Bitburg were once part of Luxemburg. The Belgian city of Arlon is designated as being in Luxemburg. The designation "aus dem luxemburgischen" often means the Belgian province called Luxemburg. While locating the places of origin of the French settlers of the Banat, one has to consider the former territorial configuration of the countries of origin.
The "French" colonization of the Banat started about 1748 with emigration from Lorraine and the territories bordering on it. The settlers from Lorraine that established Neu-Beschenowa in the summer of 1748 had to complete a military training ordered by Maria Theresia, so that they would be able to serve as soldiers in case of war. By 1750 the villages St. Andreas and St. Martin48 had been established. In an initial massive effort, both French- and German-speaking Lorrainers settled St. Andreas. Mercydorf (Mercyfalva, named after the Lorraine general Mercy, who commanded the forces in the Banat) a small village founded 1735 only by Italians (the only Italian settlement in the Banat) received substantial reinforcement, repeated same in a second massive effort between 1763 and 1766. In 1756 Mercydorf consisted of a single street and provided shelter for 21 families from Lorraine. Because of further arrivals during the 1769-71 period, other streets had to be built and Mercydorf became substantially "French." Upper Lorraine, which originally had a German population, was "Frenchicised" early on. Occupied by the French in the Polish Succession War, the duchy was taken from the husband of Maria Theresia by the Vienna Peace Treaty of 1738 (he received Tuscany in its place) and given as sinecure to the Polish ex-king Stanislaus Leszczinsky, a protegee of France. In accordance with the Treaty, Upper Lorraine reverted to France after Stanislaus' death in 1766. The extensive feudal estates of Falkenberg (Faulque Mont), Forbach, Püttlingen (Puttelanges) and Mörchingen (Morhange) were added. Some districts of Luxemburg were also given to France (e.g., the free holding Rollingen in 1769).
The pauperization of Lorraine under Polish king Stanislaus Leszczinsky (1733-1766) caused people from almost all Lorraine villages to emigrate to the Southeast. The French government did not treat its new subject gently. It exploited the population with high taxes and oppressed them. Emissaries recruiting for the colonization of Banat, found especially open ears in the population of Lorraine and Luxemburg. Many liked the prospect of finding a new homeland in the fertile Hungarian lands, under Maria Theresia, the spouse of their own legitimate duke.
Many settlers, among them many from Luxemburg, were recruited 1765/66 by baron Franz Valerius von Hauer, working for the margrave of Baden. Between 1765 and 1766, 3,141 families with about 14,000 persons came to the Banat. The granted loan (called "Antizipation") had to be paid back after three free years. It was controlled with the help of so-called "Antizipations-Büchel" (loan booklets). The village of Billed was the first village to be established in the Banat heath ("Banater Heide") which was gradually being developed. The "hunger year" 1769 caused an unforeseen wave of emigration from south western Germany and its bordering regions. 781 families came to the Banat, more than originally expected. Despite a prohibition on emigration and massive interventions by the French government, emigrants from Luxemburg and Lorraine again formed the main part of the French colonists when colonization reached its apogee in 1770-71.
Often the settlers had to leave in secrecy, because the local authorities refused to give them permission to emigrate. But the hope of achieving personal freedom in the new homeland and owning their house and land in hereditary tenure, challenged many oppressed subjects to pack their bags and disappear into the night. By the end of 1770 3,276 families with more than 10,500 persons (half of them from Lorraine and Luxemburg) immigrated to the Banat. It became nearly impossible to provide housing for them in the overcrowded existing villages.
From 1770 to 1773 4,935 families with 16,889 persons came into the Banat. Overall, French subjects with German and French mother tongue constituted the majority of settlers during the colonisation under Maria Theresa. French settlers found accommodation in Mercydorf, Bruckenau,49 Jarmatha,50 Mastort, Heufeld, Neu-Beschenova, Hatzfeld, Groß-Jetscha, Csatad, Bogarosch, Grabatz, Deutsch-Beschenova,51 Billed, Marienfeld, Neu-Arad,52 Segenthau, Weißkirchen53 and Szöllös.54 Albrechtsflor55 was founded in 1770. The French villages of St. Hubert, Charleville and Seultour came into being in 1771. The villages of Ostern, Gottlob and Triebswetter were established by French settlers in 1772. More settlers from Luxemburg came to Deutsch-Rekasch; the village Reschitze was founded in 1771; and the village Steierdorf56 in the Banat Hill Country in 1773/74. Soon after, the Vienna Court was forced to temporarily stop colonization. The administration in charge of settlement had failed at the exact moment when mass immigration from Lorrain and Luxemburg where flooding the Banat.
The colonization effort collapsed. The settlers could no longer find accommodation. The administration commissioners and district officials in Temeswar could have prevented the catastrophe by timely construction of housing and by taking local measures to provide preventive hygiene and medical services. But they were mostly noblemen who avoided personal contact with the immigrant peasants and simple craftsmen, whom they considered low-class. While in May 1770 only 900 families had been barely sheltered, when in the fall of that year more than 2,300 families with many children were cramped together and had little to eat. They soon caught malaria, dysentery, and especially typhoid (called "Petetschenfieber" at the time). The catastrophic hygienic conditions caused epidemics and infectious diseases to spread. Tired from weeks of travel and weakened from unsatisfactory provisions, many of them, especially older persons, did not have enough strength left, and just died. Even though the official recruitment for the Banat was stopped, numerous settlers arrived in 1771 and 1772. There was even a late-Theresian colonization period continued until about 1778. The administrative body of the Banat ("Landesadministration des Temeswarer Banates") was abolished by imperial decree on 6 July 1778 and the Banat was handed over to Hungarian administration. Maria Theresa died on 29 October 1780. With the proclamation of his decree of tolerance ("Toleranz Patent") by Emperor Joseph II on 26 October 1881, non-Catholic settlers were admitted as settlers of the Banat.<<
>>Many villages had been established. The size of the land area belonging to each village reflected the number of its settlers. As an exasmple, the French villag oe riebswetter, established in 1772, had 5,059 Katastraljoch (or 96,944 Square Klafters) of arable land, for 200 farmers."
>>There were never any pure French colonist villages in Banat. Every "French village" in the Banat. Every "French village" had, beside the "Lothringergasse" (Lorraine Street) and the "Luxemburgergsse" (Luxemburg Street), also a street with a small German minority, a part of which also spoke French. For this reason the settlement recieved priests that mastered both languages. The instruction in their schools was bilingual. From about 1800 more and more Germans settled in the "french villages" and by 1830 only very old persons spoke a few scraps of French"<<
Pink dots show: Villages that held "French Colonists" in 1772 were: St. Hubert, Charleville, Seultour, Mercydorf, Trieswetter, Ostern, Gottlob, Hatzfeld, Klein-Jetscha and Segenthau. However, there were a minority of Germans in each of these villages.
>>The interest of their motherland in the descendants of the French colonist was reawaken only in 1835.....One of the first to report about French villages was baron Charles d'Haussez... The baron was in transiit to the oreint. After him, prince Henri de Artois, duke of Chambord-Bourgon stopped in Triebswetter, again in transit to the orient. The price paid 1,3 million Gulden for the Praedium Toba and the settlements St. Hubert (initially 75 settlers); Charleville (initially 62 settlers); Seultour (9initially 62 settlers)'; Mastort; and Heufeld that had been estliished by French colonists, and owned them as lord of the manor until his death in 1883.<<
I will continue to do more research on the French migration into Austria-Hungary.
Were the Huberts German Saxons and Not Swabian or French?
My husband's, Garry Hubert's, father M. P. Hubert, and his father, Matthias Hubert, the descendants of Franz Hubert of Perjamosch, believed the Huberts were German Saxons, so, this is the reason I'm researching this possibility, also: In a letter from Catherine, nee Hubert, Hicks, M. P. Hubert's 's sister, wrote: "Nicks said my father said they were Saxon." Nick Hummel was Matthias Hubert's brother-in-law. Were the Huberts German Saxons?.
There were pockets of German Saxons in Austria-Hungary. The following map show the Saxon colonial areas as well as the Schwabians.
The history of the Saxons (Siebenbuerger Sachsen) settled in Transylvania started after the 12th century. It began under King Geza II of Hungary (1141-1162). They were part of the defence of the southeastern border of the Kingdom of Hungary. It is believed that most of the Saxons came from the western part of the Holy Roman Empire and the majority spoke a Franconian dialect. Because of their status in the military and the Hungarian chancellery, the Saxons held a privileged status. By 1438 the Saxons were members of the Union of the Three Nations and held rights as a member.
Another possible theory is: It is just as possible that a member of the Hubert family from the Saxon colonies might have been part of the army who helped the Schwabians become established in Banat. Saxons had served as administrators and officers in the army in war and in peace times, and, would have been part of the establishment of the new immigrants, the Schwabian Germans and the French in the Banat area.
Who are the Saxons? They were an Old Germanic tribe that splintered into Lower Saxony, Schleswig-Holstein, Saxony-Anhalt, Westphalia, Drenthe, Overijssel and southern England. Were the Germans who settled in the German State of Saxony part of the old Germanic Saxon tribe? It is thought that the early Saxons had been under the control of the Germanic King Marobod during the Roman ear. From this group emerged the Saxons. of the mediaeval Duchy of Saxony, a "stem duchy" of the Carolingian family. The Duchy and it's Duke of Saxony were part of the Holy Roman Empire until 1106 when it was given to Lothar of Supplinburg.... Portions were ceded to various German royal houses such as the Gulphs in 1180.. It passed through the the Ascanian dynasty, which became extinct . In 1485 the area left was divided into two small German states of Saxe (Lower Saxony) was ruled under the Ernestine line of the Wettin Family and Saxe-Wittenberg (Upper Saxony), was ruled under what was to be called the Albertine line of the Wettin family who favored the Protestant religion headed by Martin Luther.
The pulling of he two rulers were more than just hunger for land. The religious strife cause a tremendous amount of turmoil in this area of the world that was under going a religious change.
It appears that the Huberts remained part of the Catholic Church. My family, on the other hand, jumped into Martin Luthers wagon and stirred away from the Pope and his Catholic Church.
History brings us to Augustus "the Strong" of Saxony (1694-1733). The Protestant ruled succeeds his brother, coverts to Roman Catholicism and makes a secret alliance with Denmark and Russia with whom his troops attack in 1700 the Swedish army under Charles XII who was defending his lands from the Russian who wanted a northern sea port. His the history of the very long Northern War. Charles XII was a popular leader of his troops and drives Augustus army back across the Daugave River in the summer of 1791. Augustus looses the Polish throne but regains it a little later, however, his attention is turned elsewhere. to Dresden, where he create a city interested in the arts, rococo places fulled with royal Meissen porcelain and supports a host of artist. Music by the greats were heard in every corner.
Some of the Saxon army returned to Saxony but some remained in the Catholic Austria-Hungary Empire ruled by the Habsburgs, who needed soldiers to fight the Turks who had been hired by the Hungarian King John II Zapolya before his downfall in 1571 by Hapsburgs army. The Turks had no intentions of allowing the Habsburgs to take what they wanted and battles continued into the 1700s. Political battles were occurring at the same time. The House of Habsburg became extinct through the male line, which bring us to the female line in 1740. Her name was Empress Maria Theresa. She married Francis Stephen of Lorraine, who lost Lorraine which was seized by France in the War of the Polish Succession.
History weaves tightly around the Hubert families.
If not Schwabian, Saxon or French, could Franz and Maximillian been from Luxemberg? Once again, we are entangled in a country being torn by the Gemans who call it Luxembourgish and the French who called it.Grand-Duche de Luxembourg. Today it is the last remaining sovereign grand duchy with a ruling constitutional monarch. The country is trillingual with German, French and Luxmbourish. The one thing that has remained the same, the majory of her citizens are Roman Catholic. .
I am going to jump across the ages to 1437 when the Habsburg archduke Albert V of Austria inherited Luxembourg and the Albertine line of he Houe of Habsburg ruled until the death of Empress Maria Theresa in 1780.
I really haven't come to a conclusion about Franz and Maximilian Hubert / Huber origin. I have, however, a different conclusion about the Huberts after reading the conditions these two men, their families and the other early colonists had in those early years is: It is remarkable that these two men, their brides and children survived the wars, the politics, floods, and food shortages to marry, have children and know their grandchildren. And it wasn't because they were or were not German and/or French. They had a basket full of luck along with some excellent genes, were prosperous by working hard and long hours, and resilience which carried them and their descendants to the present.
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Additions: 20 Nov 2011
A more Complete List of Different German Migrations: http://www.z-g-v.de/english/aktuelles/?id=56
Facts / Background from "Zentrum Gegen Vertreibungen" Foundation in Berlin
Back to Hubert List in Perjamosch